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The new genealogists the consider this high you to definitely Nicholas’ partner Clementia was included right here because, not as much as regular issues, she would not be mentioned. Whenever Susanna at the specific afterwards go out obtained out over a separate protector, brand new spouse of that guardian wasn’t said.

This will imply that King John spent a little while here and you can the potential for a keen amorous liaison which have Clementia can be obtained

Here are some here’s an idea state-of-the-art because of the some eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to state that the latest findings are hotly competitive!

It idea leads to a great and you will interested ‘twist’ on tale off Joanna, that could attention admirers away from HBD!

On the surface, there is nothing to recommend any partnership between your hostage, Susanna out of Wales and you may Clementia, spouse regarding Nicholas de- Verdun. Yet not, the experience of particular genealogists with international hostages, like youths, has been which they was in fact usually set with loved ones, or no was basically offered.

Jumping toward 1236, there can be an admission on the Tewkesbury annals and therefore applies to Joanna’s mother as the “Queen Clemencie!” They reads to some extent:

Today, we know the mother regarding Joanna is called Clementia (Clemence?

In this case the new monk was evidently indulging during the gothic legalism. Before their particular passing, Joanna is legitimised by the Pope. On such basis as one legitimisation, the latest Tewksbury monk obviously got it upon himself to raise Joanna’s mom on the reputation away from Queen, because if their particular mom is Queen John’s spouse! It is a fact however, you to definitely Queen John and you will kadД±nlar ГњrdГјn Clementia was indeed never ever partnered. Of the discussing Joanna’s mommy since “Queen” Clementia, the brand new monk who filed Joanna’s passing is actually appearing his high esteem for Joanna, although not trying to change the genuine situations.

When it comes to name out of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget means that she are new daughter out-of Roger de- Dauntsey, from Wiltshire. You to genealogist considers it high one Clementia acclaimed off Wiltshire as he’s noticed that Queen John had a powerful attachment in order to you to county, it as the household away from their safest allies, new Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists have found that the title ‘Clementia’ is actually extremely rare certainly one of English noblewomen of the months. In one dining table of ladies labels that has been gathered, there were merely two situations of name “Clementia” regarding a maximum of 1407 feamales in the brand new sample! The fact some one called Clementia was of Susanna is recognized as extreme.

Therefore! Evidence was suggestive, yet not definitive, you to when you look at the 1228, Susanna, once the a great hostage, gotten over to new proper care of their own maternal granny, today wife regarding Nicholas de- Verdun!!

New Scottish genealogists of your MacDuffs’ keep you to Susanna ferch Llywelyn came to be 1214 in Gwynnedd, Wales and you may passed away c. 1259 inside the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out of Fife inside the 1230 and had one or two pupils: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl from Fife, created 1245, died 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.

Obviously, there are prevent arguments to any or all which conjecture! King John got many mistresses and possibly up to 7 illegitimate college students. The mother from Joanna would-have-been created circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was given birth to circa 1191 (14 yrs old at the time of their marriage so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, the new recognized legitimate daughter away from Nicholas de Verdun along with his partner Clementia was given birth to circa 1210-1213. In the event that Clementia was the caretaker regarding Joanna, she would are located in their late 30’s, early 40’s when having a baby so you’re able to Rohese! Perhaps not hopeless, particular state, but not likely.